Curse

Red_Dragon56 · Jan 30, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Cannon Berzerker.

I haven't read all the concepts but I would like to give it a try anyhow. If this is similar to any please forgive me.

A new thing would be needed for the game.

Rage-Similar echos they don't need shouts or anything like that to sustain them, rather they require a number of hits of adrenaline to sustain the ability. (EX. Ability : Rage-4; Rage-7; Rage-10 number representing the amount of adrenaline needed to sustain the ability)

Primary Skill-Bloodlust For every three levels the amount of adrenaline gained per hit is increased by 1
Secondary Skill-Cannon Mastery Every level in cannon mastery increases the damage of cannons by 1
Secondary Skill-Calming Mastery No inherit effect; skills are affected per level.
Secondary Skill-Rage Mastery No inherit effect; skills are affected per level.

Weapon:
Cannon, large cannons are used as melee weapons for this class, the damage is increased at huge numbers at high levels of Cannon Mastery, only it takes around 3 seconds per hit. At 16+ per hit just with the cannon at 0 damage the numbers add up.

Spells/Skills Examples:
Bloodlust
*Elite: Rage-5 Stance Adrenaline 10: Anger: You gain (5..10) adrenaline. This stance wears off after ten seconds.
*Rage-2 Stance Adrenaline 5: Pump up: You gain (1..3) adrenaline. This stance wears off after five seconds.

Cannon Mastery
*Elite: Cannon Required Adrenaline 3 Energy 5: Magic Missle: Fires a magic missle shot for 20 damage. If hits, drains (5..10) energy.
*Cannon Required Adrenaline 3 Energy 5: Gunpowder: Fires a cannon shot for range for (10..20) damage.
*Cannon Required Adrenaline 6 Energy 10: Fire Shot: Fires a firey shot for (5..10) damage. If hits, causes immolation for (1..3) seconds.

Calming Mastery
*Elite: Adrenaline 10 : Crimson Transformation: For (10..30) seconds you become a crimson beast your base attack increases by (5..15) and your attack speed doubles. This skill takes 120 seconds to recharge.
*Adrenaline 4: Fire Fury: Your attacks cause immolation for (3..10) seconds.
*Adrenaline 2: Explosive Attack: All nearby foes take 10 damage.

Rage Mastery
*Elite: Rage-3 Sonic Boom: For 1 second all nearby foes take (5..10) damage per second.
*Adrenaline 5 Rage-5 Blood Frenzy: Sacrafice 2/3 of your maximum health; For (5..10) seconds your attack speed doubles.
*Adrenaline 8 Rage-8 Power Armor: For (10...15) seconds physical attacks against you are reduced by (5..10) and your physical attacks do (5..10) more damage.

Red_Dragon56 · Feb 01, 2007, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Ok, a little more on the class. I haven't gotten any feedback so I guess I have to assume there is nothing to comment on.

Cannon 25-41 Damage [max] (yeah, big damage plus the 16+ you get from Cannon Mastery): but the interval is 3 seconds so take that into account. You get spike damage but not that great DPS.

Armor 70: Not a pure tank better than a spellcaster though. Pretty much Dervish, Assassin, or Ranger.

New skills may be added of I get any comments. If not I'll just let this topic die.

System_Crush · Feb 02, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red_Dragon56

<PLUG> Can anyone please look at my Cannon Berzerker? It's not fun being ignored. </PLUG>

what is a plug?
Looks like the same thign as a offtopic or a PS?
anyways

Although a big guy houling a cannon around will look cool, it is in 2 ways also a problemantic identity:
1 A cannon is a mounted armement for a reason; when fired while being held, the backstroke will kill most people, others will take heavy damage be knocked down and suffer multiple broken ribs(deepwound)
2 Each class in GW has to be bi-gendered(positive discrimination Anet thing) I'm not sure if I want to see a female cannon berseker
Yxxl: Ahhh! The immage, it stays when I close my eyes!

I have a sugestion that might be a fix.
A cannon is a cannon in that it is a heavy strong tube that can contain the balistic energy needed to launsh a round projectile over large distances.

1 this class is melee, so your cannon attacks won't need large distances 2 not needing large distances means you need elss balistic energy which 3 means you need a less heavy less strong tube.

At close range a shotgun blast is far more effective than a heavy ball that gathers speed while falling.
So I sugest loading a compound wood and metal devise with shrapnel and causing explosion in it forsing the shrapnel(many, many small sharp pieces of metal or stone) out of the end.
The weapon would be a boom stick, literally, not a rifle of any sort but a staff of a metal tube with something around it that allows ou to hold it after it gets hot, wood most likely.
The class would smack his foes into submission with the stick, then throw a already burning charge into the barrel, blasting a hail of shrapnell onto a adjscent target for max damage or a nearby target and foes adjascent to it deviding the damage over all of them, or a foe in the area and all foes nearby it devidding the damage among them to small amounts.

The weapon would be lighter, not sueside to use, cariable and usable by women.

Quote:

*Elite: Cannon Required Adrenaline 3 Energy 5: Magic Missle: Fires a magic missle shot for 20 damage. If hits, drains (5..10) energy.

No! just no ok.
No shooting magic out of a canon, it is really unimaginative, if it is magical make it look magical, crystal tower, gemstone adroned glove or whatever, but not a cannon or a gun or a rifle.

Quote:

*Elite: Adrenaline 10 : Crimson Transformation: For (10..30) seconds you become a crimson beast your base attack increases by (5..15) and your attack speed doubles. This skill takes 120 seconds to recharge.

Crimson means dark red, is it a cartoon reference?
Where soem guys face goes red and steam comes out of his ears when hes really angry, if so why is it in calming?

I imagine calming to be the berseker regaining calm to stop hands from shaking and to keep focused on aiming their weapon for ranged attacks.
While rage does the opposite and is a suport atribute for melee fighting.

Quote:

*Elite: Rage-5 Stance Adrenaline 10: Anger: You gain (5..10) adrenaline. This stance wears off after ten seconds.
*Rage-2 Stance Adrenaline 5: Pump up: You gain (1..3) adrenaline. This stance wears off after five seconds.

From what I got, each second while this stance is active you gain adrenaline
Becouse of rage-5 this stance ends if you have less than 5 strikes of adrenaline.

Is that about right?
If so is the adrenaline gained in strikes or points?(20 points = 1 strike) if it is strikes it is way over powered, 3 strikes of adrenaline per second for 5 seconds is too much as it has no recharge, if you give it some long recharge it might be blancable.
More logical is making it cost signifigant energy, wariors and paragons both use energy for most skills meant for gaining adrenaline, and adrenaline for skills that gain them energy.

Quote:

*Adrenaline 5 Rage-5 Blood Frenzy: Sacrafice 2/3 of your maximum health; For (5..10) seconds your attack speed doubles.

Ouch! if you used this anywhere else than at full heath it would kill you! I would rather take double damage, at least that does not have to kill me when I become collateral damage of a AoE spell even if frenzie is not reappied by itself.
You do know that the sacrefice effect also get realplied when you reapply a effect, when ever this rage get reapplied it would deal damge to you, at 5 seconds the enemy can just wait for you to die.

The idea is kind of original and could be good, but the post has some heavy flaws in it.
How could you get burn wrong as

Quote:

causes immolation for (1..3) seconds

Immolation is a posetive effect from warcraft, completly diferent.

For a first time you did fine, keep at it 104.5 heads is better than 103.5(I have no idea how many CC'ers there are, its just a random number)

Red_Dragon56 · Feb 02, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

what is a plug?
Looks like the same thign as a offtopic or a PS?
anyways

Although a big guy houling a cannon around will look cool, it is in 2 ways also a problemantic identity:
1 A cannon is a mounted armement for a reason; when fired while being held, the backstroke will kill most people, others will take heavy damage be knocked down and suffer multiple broken ribs(deepwound)
2 Each class in GW has to be bi-gendered(positive discrimination Anet thing) I'm not sure if I want to see a female cannon berseker
Yxxl: Ahhh! The immage, it stays when I close my eyes!

It's fantasy so a shoulder mounted cannon would work. Although not practical/realistic, neither is a person teleporting around eating corpses (consume corpse necro

).Remember that anyone can carry a sledgehammer in GW, including frail Elementalists. Cannons don't have to be huge either in GW. Think of them as larger muskets.

Quote:

I have a sugestion that might be a fix.
A cannon is a cannon in that it is a heavy strong tube that can contain the balistic energy needed to launsh a round projectile over large distances.

1 this class is melee, so your cannon attacks won't need large distances 2 not needing large distances means you need elss balistic energy which 3 means you need a less heavy less strong tube.

At close range a shotgun blast is far more effective than a heavy ball that gathers speed while falling.
So I sugest loading a compound wood and metal devise with shrapnel and causing explosion in it forsing the shrapnel(many, many small sharp pieces of metal or stone) out of the end.
The weapon would be a boom stick, literally, not a rifle of any sort but a staff of a metal tube with something around it that allows ou to hold it after it gets hot, wood most likely.
The class would smack his foes into submission with the stick, then throw a already burning charge into the barrel, blasting a hail of shrapnell onto a adjscent target for max damage or a nearby target and foes adjascent to it deviding the damage over all of them, or a foe in the area and all foes nearby it devidding the damage among them to small amounts.

The weapon would be lighter, not sueside to use, cariable and usable by women.

Interesting idea... I was thinking using the class to utilise switching targets. So that he would be attacking at the front line swith warriors and such, but then using the cannon skills to shoot at the backlines where the spellcasters are, thus having a class that would be a tank and a ranger at the same time.

Quote:

No! just no ok.
No shooting magic out of a canon, it is really unimaginative, if it is magical make it look magical, crystal tower, gemstone adroned glove or whatever, but not a cannon or a gun or a rifle.

I was just trying to explain the energy drain. I really just slapped an elite in there to complete my pattern

Quote:

Crimson means dark red, is it a cartoon reference?
Where soem guys face goes red and steam comes out of his ears when hes really angry, if so why is it in calming?

I imagine calming to be the berseker regaining calm to stop hands from shaking and to keep focused on aiming their weapon for ranged attacks.
While rage does the opposite and is a suport atribute for melee fighting.

Calming as in it get's rid of adrenaline. I think that elite particuarly belongs in the Rage attribute, but w/e

Quote:

From what I got, each second while this stance is active you gain adrenaline
Becouse of rage-5 this stance ends if you have less than 5 strikes of adrenaline.

Is that about right?
If so is the adrenaline gained in strikes or points?(20 points = 1 strike) if it is strikes it is way over powered, 3 strikes of adrenaline per second for 5 seconds is too much as it has no recharge, if you give it some long recharge it might be blancable.

You gain the adrenaline, that's it. No continuing effect until it is reapplied. thus the recharge rate would be most likely high because of the Rage-5

Quote:

More logical is making it cost signifigant energy, wariors and paragons both use energy for most skills meant for gaining adrenaline, and adrenaline for skills that gain them energy.

Ouch! if you used this anywhere else than at full heath it would kill you! I would rather take double damage, at least that does not have to kill me when I become collateral damage of a AoE spell even if frenzie is not reappied by itself.
You do know that the sacrefice effect also get realplied when you reapply a effect, when ever this rage get reapplied it would deal damge to you, at 5 seconds the enemy can just wait for you to die.

Eek! I ment 1/3... Even then it would be alot, maybe 1/4?

Quote:

The idea is kind of original and could be good, but the post has some heavy flaws in it.
How could you get burn wrong as

Immolation is a posetive effect from warcraft, completly diferent.

Heh, I was thinking of the Elementalist spell Immolation at the time. It causes burning.

Quote:

For a first time you did fine, keep at it 104.5 heads is better than 103.5(I have no idea how many CC'ers there are, its just a random number)

...what?

nebojats · Feb 02, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Yo Red_Dragon56,

As far as I understand it, the Cannon Berzerker is an adrenaline-based melee attacker who uses various skills to a) pump up his adrenaline and b) deal more damage.

How is this fundamentally different from the Warrior? And, before you respond to that, can the Cannon Berzerker's subtle differences from the Warrior be mimicked simply by giving the Warrior a secondary class? The reason I didn't respond to this concept at first (and I suspect it's also why you haven't had many responses in general) is because this class offers nothing new in terms of gameplay to Guild Wars.

In order for a new class to be viable it should offer: a) an original role and b) an enticing and novel identity. The Cannon Berzerker doesn't offer an original role; it's merely rehashing and repackaging the archetypal warrior. The identity could be more promising. Personally, I don't think guns should be in GW. Also, isn't the advantage of a cannon to have long range? If you want the Cannon Berzerker to be successful, try refocusing this concept class around an original role or game mechanic (i.e. the rage idea).

Nemo the Capitalist · Feb 02, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

THast sounds really lame kinda like a WoW ripoff.

Red_Dragon56 · Feb 03, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo the Capitalist

THast sounds really lame kinda like a WoW ripoff.

Yea, there are classes in WoW that carry cannons... Wait a second... no there isn't.

@nebo: I tried to make it more original and offer somthing new by using the Rage system and the Cannons to include range. I'm thinking of using Energy instead of Adrenaline thus creating a Range/Melee hybrid.

Also you miss the concept of the whole class a little bit, true that he uses Adrenaline to raise his attacks, but he also uses it to maintain enchantment-esque skills to buff up himself up. Now think about stacking these effects together. As long as you maintain adren you can keep them up, making it fundementally different from a Warrior.

nebojats · Feb 05, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

So the class is fundamentally different from a Warrior because it can both improve attacks and maintain buffs? The Warrior has adrenaline skills which achieve both effects:

[skill]Cleave[/skill] [skill]Defy Pain[/skill]

True, he doesn't have your Rage, so he can't maintain them for long. However, other classes are able to maintain improved attacks and buffs. The Monk's enchantments last as long as he wants to maintain them:

[skill]Strength of Honor[/skill] [skill]Watchful Spirit[/skill]

The Paragon's echoes can be reapplied infinitely if he times his chants and shouts right:

[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Mending Refrain[/skill]

Quote:

he uses Adrenaline to raise his attacks, but he also uses it to maintain enchantment-esque skills to buff up himself up.

You can achieve the same combination (although probably less effective than your Cannon Berzerker) with a dual-class character whose two professions are any of these three already-existing classes. You could also achieve the same (actually, more effective) effect by simply being a Warrior who specializes in adrenaline attacks and having a Monk or Paragon buffing the Warrior. This is disregarding a whole multitude of other defensive and offensive buffs which nearly every class has access to.

I still don't think what you've put forward offers much innovation to the game. We already have an entire class which is devoted to sustained buffs and two classes which revolve around adrenaline. I (along with most people, I would guess) think a good class concept should have original features that are concise and easily apparent. If the reader can't fully understand the unique role of the character, it's the fault of the writer for not making it clear enough.

Keeping this in mind, these are what I see as the defining characteristics of your Cannon Berzerker:

It is long-ranged.

It uses many adrenaline skills.

It employs a system to sustain buffs.

It sounds like the Paragon to me. If it isn't, please clearly explain how this concept class differs significantly from a Paragon, a Paragon/Warrior, or any other already-existing class combination. The difference shouldn't be so lengthy and complex that it takes a full paragraph to explain. If it really offers something new to the game, then there should be immediate distinction from other classes even after a brief, general description. I'm not trying to be mean, man, I just don't see anything original about the role of this class. By role, I don't mean style, specific mechanics, or anything so particular. I refer to the general function that it fills within a larger group.

You've suggested changing the weapon to be both melee and ranged. Personally, I think that's the most innovative idea you've put forth. Can such versatility already be achieved with a Warrior/Paragon or a Warrior/Ranger? I'm not sure. Is it enough to be the sole original concept around which a new class is based? Definitely not, but it is a unique way of fighting that could be incorporated into a new class (if you don't use it, I will). My advice would be to take the multi-use weapon idea, create a genuinely unique role, and build a new class around that.

Red_Dragon56 · Feb 05, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

So the class is fundamentally different from a Warrior because it can both improve attacks and maintain buffs? The Warrior has adrenaline skills which achieve both effects:

[skill]Cleave[/skill] [skill]Defy Pain[/skill]

True, he doesn't have your Rage, so he can't maintain them for long. However, other classes are able to maintain improved attacks and buffs. The Monk's enchantments last as long as he wants to maintain them:

[skill]Strength of Honor[/skill] [skill]Watchful Spirit[/skill]

The Paragon's echoes can be reapplied infinitely if he times his chants and shouts right:

[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] [skill]Mending Refrain[/skill]

See how you put three classes there though that do similar things? What's to say that all classes have to be completely seperated from eachother?

Quote:

You can achieve the same combination (although probably less effective than your Cannon Berzerker) with a dual-class character whose two professions are any of these three already-existing classes. You could also achieve the same (actually, more effective) effect by simply being a Warrior who specializes in adrenaline attacks and having a Monk or Paragon buffing the Warrior. This is disregarding a whole multitude of other defensive and offensive buffs which nearly every class has access to.

You say yourself that the W/P/M would be less effective. Your other suggestion is if you have 2 or more people in a group to do the dirty work for you, meaning a class that can do the same as those 2 together make it better doesn't it?

Quote:

Keeping this in mind, these are what I see as the defining characteristics of your Cannon Berzerker:

It is long-ranged.

It uses many adrenaline skills.

It employs a system to sustain buffs.

It sounds like the Paragon to me.

It's Melee with Long range skills (i.e. a W/E with flares or other such skills). It employs a system using adrenaline to sustain buffs.

Quote:

You've suggested changing the weapon to be both melee and ranged. Personally, I think that's the most innovative idea you've put forth. Can such versatility already be achieved with a Warrior/Paragon or a Warrior/Ranger? I'm not sure. Is it enough to be the sole original concept around which a new class is based? Definitely not, but it is a unique way of fighting that could be incorporated into a new class (if you don't use it, I will). My advice would be to take the multi-use weapon idea, create a genuinely unique role, and build a new class around that.

Initially I thought of doing that exactly, only I wanted a way of doing it without the class to focus around 2 weapon masterys. Because of the way GW is set up it would be impossible to have the same weapon have two different damages/ranges/animations/etc.

I think I am going to discard this class anyhow and use it as a pillar to create another class. But the way you put it I made a Paragon with a different name, which is like saying the assassin is a warrior that uses only energy.

BahamutKaiser · Feb 05, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

A combination of several exsisting techniques isn't a new class, it is a combination of techniques. I will say that this isn't a complete copy and past, and that a cannon firing class is alot better than a gun toting class, but the idea of a cannon carrying berserker is kind of lame, cannons have nothing to do with berserking

That is unless your using a "hand cannon" or a shotgun, which would be alot more realistic. But honestly, how does this offer a new feature to the game?

I have heard the same mockery about every class idea, either it is a combination of exsisting classes, or it is too radical and unrealistic, people that don't like something will defect to the easiest denial reguardless of what you class really entails often without even reading the idea because they are lazy morons who can't figure out anything past what they want to rip off from a previous game. And then the spout off nonsense about WoW as an alternative to anything they don't want to accept even through WoW has nothing to do with it. That I can understand.

But what you have here doesn't offer a new kind of attack to the game, it is another ranged attack at an even slower interval than the last, with higher damage, making it more like Elementist nuking. The least you could do to make it more original is make it slow AoE damage, that way it is different than the last 2 ranged attacks.

Second of all, the idea of a high technology (cannons are high technology for feudal times) feature on a berserking unit is rather ridiculous. Adrenaline has nothing to do with firing cannons, becoming a beast doesn't make your cannon fire faster, and the whole idea is unorthodox at best, rather comical. I can understand an engineer class that mounts cannons at certain locations and prepares a set of volleys with artilery fire, that makes sense. Cannon Berserking, Dual Pistol Wielding, and guns in general all fall in the same boat of silly, unorthodox, and inappropriate for the game.

If you need some good class ideas to draw understanding from, read any of my class ideas, or read the latest topic on new features not available in exsisting classes, you can scroll down to my addition and read through a list of previous ideas.

Red_Dragon56 · Feb 05, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

I have heard the same mockery about every class idea, either it is a combination of exsisting classes, or it is too radical and unrealistic, people that don't like something will defect to the easiest denial reguardless of what you class really entails often without even reading the idea because they are lazy morons who can't figure out anything past what they want to rip off from a previous game. And then the spout off nonsense about WoW as an alternative to anything they don't want to accept even through WoW has nothing to do with it. That I can understand.

...what? Where did I talk about WoW in comparison to this build besides it isn't anything like WoW? When have I not taken input from people's ideas in order to make them better?

Quote:

But what you have here doesn't offer a new kind of attack to the game, it is another ranged attack at an even slower interval than the last, with higher damage, making it more like Elementist nuking. The least you could do to make it more original is make it slow AoE damage, that way it is different than the last 2 ranged attacks.

It's a melee attack with ranged skills, thus making it so you can choose between Melee or Range without switching weapons.

Did you read the topic or just skim it then spout off OMG GUNPOWDER THAT DOESN'T BELONG IN GW!!11!!1 Because it really seems that way. I appreciate your input and respect your opinions, you make alot of different classes, but please read throughly a little more please
.
Again, based on the comments I've recieved I will most likely make another class, discarding the idea of making this one any better. I still think that gunpowder is somthing that belongs in GW one of these days, the idea that time stands still is a silly notion, as time progresses so does technology.

Wertic · Feb 08, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

No...no...no...no...no... Sounds like one of my friends (who is some kind of orc fanatics) ideas... Cannons in Guild Wars?!

BahamutKaiser · Feb 09, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Your really slow red dragon, the paragraph quoted was about the comments other people were flinging at you. The single mildly original feature is a ball park from being enough for a class, which is why I disapprove.

But if you were talented at all, you would have realized that, so maybe it was a waste of time to say something in your defense.